John Southwell d.1841
John Southwell was born approx 1784, and lived and died in Bristol, England (just south of Wales). Bristol was part of Somerset until the early 19th Century, when it became part of Gloucestershire.
His significance is:
a) He is the earliest that can be positively traced of the Southwell line, which merged with Shayle George (and Simmonds).
b) His daughter Frances is listed in the Dictionary of New Zealand Biography as Frances Shayle George.
c) There is an apocryphal reference of a connection to the Barons “Southwell de Clifford”.
CM (Caroline) has done extensive research on John, and I’ll reproduce her chronology below.
Although DNZB listed him as a solicitor, all official documents show he was an accountant. In any case, he was a professional at a time (beginning of 19th Century) when education wasn’t the norm. Further, most references place him in Clifton, which was a particularly well-to-do area at the time (once a village, by then part of Bristol).
Origins
Nothing is known for certain about this. CM: “his death certificate … gives no helpful clues as to parentage. He has been consistently listed in various documents as an Accountant. ( I suspect he was illegitimate, and a suitable romantic story was invented to cover this fact up)."
His significance is:
a) He is the earliest that can be positively traced of the Southwell line, which merged with Shayle George (and Simmonds).
b) His daughter Frances is listed in the Dictionary of New Zealand Biography as Frances Shayle George.
c) There is an apocryphal reference of a connection to the Barons “Southwell de Clifford”.
CM (Caroline) has done extensive research on John, and I’ll reproduce her chronology below.
Although DNZB listed him as a solicitor, all official documents show he was an accountant. In any case, he was a professional at a time (beginning of 19th Century) when education wasn’t the norm. Further, most references place him in Clifton, which was a particularly well-to-do area at the time (once a village, by then part of Bristol).
Origins
Nothing is known for certain about this. CM: “his death certificate … gives no helpful clues as to parentage. He has been consistently listed in various documents as an Accountant. ( I suspect he was illegitimate, and a suitable romantic story was invented to cover this fact up)."
Family
John first married in 1803, to Hannah Weston. He was apparently about 19 and she was about 26. They had a son, George Southwell. After Hannah died, John remarried Martha Farmer. About this time, George went to Cambridge university. George subsequently became a priest. S0, there was a good chance he was illegitimate, yet he was a professional, lived in a very good area, and could send his son to Cambridge.
Did the money come from his parents? (Or perhaps Hannah's parents?)
Hon. Southwell de Clifford?
Hinemoa’s notes indicated he was descended from “Hon. Southwell de Clifford” and “Duke of Beaufort”. My two-volume Oxford dictionary says “The prefix ‘Honourable’ (Hon.) is given to … sons and daughters of peers below the rank of Marquess”. The line of Barons de Clifford had passed several times through the female line, so had various surnames.
There were two De Clifford Barons with the surname Southwell [apart from Walter Southwell de Clifford in the 12th Century, which is too much of a stretch].
Edward Southwell, 20th Baron de Clifford (1738–1777)
Edward Southwell, 21st Baron de Clifford (1767–1832)
The 21st baron died in his 60s, unmarried, but when he was about 17, John Southwell was born.
On the other side, the 5th Duke of Beaufort (Sir Henry Somerset) was born 1744, but there are no legitimate candidates for the mother.
So if the story were true, my best guess would be that John Southwell’s parents were: maybe the 21st Baron de Clifford and an illegitimate daughter of the 5th Duke.
It might make a good story, but it wouldn't pass muster as any more than that.
Further research into those characters could disprove (or possibly prove) this. The alternative is CM’s idea of a story to cover John Southwell’s birth. Given the above, I’d tend to agree with her, because of the lack of a conclusive “Hon. Southwell de Clifford” at that time.
The final word on this is a bizarre note: the Duke of Somerset, Cardinal Beaufort, Lord Clifford, and John Southwell (priest) were characters in Shakespeare’s Henry VI pt. 2. (The Duke of Beaufort being in part 1!)
John’s wife, MarthaJohn died nine years before his daughter Frances left for New Zealand. Martha (Farmer) Southwell was born in Clifton in Bristol, and died at Clifton House, Alten Rd, Auckland. She arrived in Auckland on the Portland in 22-Jul-1863, probably to be with her daughter and her family. It was the year Frances' last child was born, but I don't know whether she arrived with the knowledge of that new baby.
Pigots [a sort of business directory] for Bristol in 1830 lists one Farmer:
FARMER Edward, Accountant, 29 St Michael's Hill, Bristol.
This is not to say they were related, but no other records with relevance to Martha Farmer have yet been found. Interesting to note the accountancy connection, though.
Hinemoa’s notes indicated he was descended from “Hon. Southwell de Clifford” and “Duke of Beaufort”. My two-volume Oxford dictionary says “The prefix ‘Honourable’ (Hon.) is given to … sons and daughters of peers below the rank of Marquess”. The line of Barons de Clifford had passed several times through the female line, so had various surnames.
There were two De Clifford Barons with the surname Southwell [apart from Walter Southwell de Clifford in the 12th Century, which is too much of a stretch].
Edward Southwell, 20th Baron de Clifford (1738–1777)
Edward Southwell, 21st Baron de Clifford (1767–1832)
The 21st baron died in his 60s, unmarried, but when he was about 17, John Southwell was born.
On the other side, the 5th Duke of Beaufort (Sir Henry Somerset) was born 1744, but there are no legitimate candidates for the mother.
So if the story were true, my best guess would be that John Southwell’s parents were: maybe the 21st Baron de Clifford and an illegitimate daughter of the 5th Duke.
It might make a good story, but it wouldn't pass muster as any more than that.
Further research into those characters could disprove (or possibly prove) this. The alternative is CM’s idea of a story to cover John Southwell’s birth. Given the above, I’d tend to agree with her, because of the lack of a conclusive “Hon. Southwell de Clifford” at that time.
The final word on this is a bizarre note: the Duke of Somerset, Cardinal Beaufort, Lord Clifford, and John Southwell (priest) were characters in Shakespeare’s Henry VI pt. 2. (The Duke of Beaufort being in part 1!)
John’s wife, MarthaJohn died nine years before his daughter Frances left for New Zealand. Martha (Farmer) Southwell was born in Clifton in Bristol, and died at Clifton House, Alten Rd, Auckland. She arrived in Auckland on the Portland in 22-Jul-1863, probably to be with her daughter and her family. It was the year Frances' last child was born, but I don't know whether she arrived with the knowledge of that new baby.
Pigots [a sort of business directory] for Bristol in 1830 lists one Farmer:
FARMER Edward, Accountant, 29 St Michael's Hill, Bristol.
This is not to say they were related, but no other records with relevance to Martha Farmer have yet been found. Interesting to note the accountancy connection, though.
SOUTHWELL CHRONOLOGY
1784 - 1861
1784 John Southwell born circa 1784 (parents not established)
1803 John marries Hannah Weston (1777 - 1824) by bans @ St John’s Bedminster Somerset (4th November) aged 19.
1808 Son George Southwell born circa 1808 in Bristol Somerset.
1815 George is baptised aged 7 @ St Philips & Jacob Church on 05-02-1815. Father listed as Accountant living in Castle Precincts, Bristol.
1824 Hannah Southwell dies aged 47 & is interred @ St Thomas’ Church 09-11-1824. Listed as of St Michael’s Parish.
1825 John’s address Rectory House, Church Lane, St Michael’s Parish, listed as Accountant, source Matthew’s Street Directory. John marries Martha Farmer 09-05-1827 by bans @ St Andrews Church, in the Parish of Clifton. Profession listed as Accountant.
1827 Remarries, to Martha Farmer
1828 Daughter Frances is born 20th September, at Charlotte St, Clifton, Gloucestershire.
1828 Frances baptised 27-09-1829 @ St Augustine’s Church, Bristol. Father listed as Accountant.
1832 George Southwell graduates from Cambridge University & marries Mary Ann Trustan Price 11/12/1832 by licence @ St Andrew’s Church, Clifton. George is listed as “of Westbury
on Trym Parish, Gloucestershire”.
1833 George Bull Southwell, John’s grandson is born circa 1833 to George Southwell & Mary Ann Trustan Southwell in Clifton Bristol, & privately baptised 29-09-1833. (Mary Anne also born Bristol Somerset).
1838 George Southwell is ordained Priest @ Gloucester.
1841 Census lists John, Martha & Frances living @ Michael’s Hill , Bristol.
1828 Frances baptised 27-09-1829 @ St Augustine’s Church, Bristol. Father listed as Accountant.
1832 George Southwell graduates from Cambridge University & marries Mary Ann Trustan Price 11/12/1832 by licence @ St Andrew’s Church, Clifton. George is listed as “of Westbury
on Trym Parish, Gloucestershire”.
1833 George Bull Southwell, John’s grandson is born circa 1833 to George Southwell & Mary Ann Trustan Southwell in Clifton Bristol, & privately baptised 29-09-1833. (Mary Anne also born Bristol Somerset).
1838 George Southwell is ordained Priest @ Gloucester.
1841 Census lists John, Martha & Frances living @ Michael’s Hill , Bristol.
1841 John Southwell dies and is buried 6th July (1 month after Census) @ St Thomas’ Church, aged 57, listed as Accountant of Michael’s Hill.
1842 George is Curate @ Boyton, Wiltshire from 1842-1849.
1848 Frances marries Thomas Shayle George at Boyton, Wiltshire, 24-10-1848, aged 20.
1849 Charles Southwell Shayle George born to Frances & Thomas in the City of Newport, Monmouthshire.
1850 Frances, Thomas and son arrive in Auckland NZ on the “Sir Edward Paget” in December.
1857 George's son George Bull Southwell is ordained deacon at Salisbury.
1858 George Bull is made Priest.
1861 Census records George and George Bull Southwell as Vicar and Curate of Yetminster, Dorset respectively.
1842 George is Curate @ Boyton, Wiltshire from 1842-1849.
1848 Frances marries Thomas Shayle George at Boyton, Wiltshire, 24-10-1848, aged 20.
1849 Charles Southwell Shayle George born to Frances & Thomas in the City of Newport, Monmouthshire.
1850 Frances, Thomas and son arrive in Auckland NZ on the “Sir Edward Paget” in December.
1857 George's son George Bull Southwell is ordained deacon at Salisbury.
1858 George Bull is made Priest.
1861 Census records George and George Bull Southwell as Vicar and Curate of Yetminster, Dorset respectively.
1863 John’s widow Martha emigrates to New Zealand
1873 Martha dies in Auckland.
1873 Martha dies in Auckland.
posted by S Simmonds | 8:03 pm
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